Page 1 of 19 
 
Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Saranel Binyon 
January 21, 1998 
Cassette 1, Side 1 
 
 
Katherin Hervey  00:01 
Saranel Binyon, January 21, 1998, tape one. Why don't we start with like birthdate, where you 
were born? 
 
Saranel Binyon  00:19 
Okay, the 10th of February 1942, in Odessa, Texas. 
 
Katherin Hervey  00:27 
Siblings?  
 
Saranel Binyon  00:29 
None. 
 
Katherin Hervey  00:29 
None? 
 
Saranel Binyon  00:29 
Yes. 
 
Katherin Hervey  00:29 
One girl. Were you closer to one parent than you were to another one?  
 
Saranel Binyon  00:46 
Actually, I was closer to my grandmother than I was to either of my parents.  
 
Katherin Hervey  00:49 
Because she raised you for the most part?  
 
Saranel Binyon  00:51 
Well, it was sort of a cooperative effort. I remember more of her teachings than of anybody.  
 
Katherin Hervey  00:57 
Did she live in-- Did you guys all live in the same home? 
Page 2 of 19 
 
 
Saranel Binyon  01:01 
She came and lived with us about half a year, and then she would go stay with the other people, 
the other part. And I was always really upset when she'd leave and would look forward to when 
she would be there. 
 
Katherin Hervey  01:16 
When she was gone, were you closer to either one of your parents? 
 
Saranel Binyon  01:34 
No, not particularly. I liked my daddy better, but we weren't really close. 
 
Katherin Hervey  01:29 
So, as a child, did you want to, you know, live a life, grow up to be like your parents? 
 
Saranel Binyon  01:35 
God, no [laughs]. 
 
Katherin Hervey  01:36 
No? 
 
Saranel Binyon  01:36 
No. 
 
Katherin Hervey  01:39 
What were they like? 
 
Saranel Binyon  01:40 
Well, they were just everyday people. Mother worked with daddy. Daddy had a ranch and 
several other businesses, and they worked very hard and had very little fun and disagreed a lot, 
which I found boring. And that was not the kind of life I would want to lead. 
 
Katherin Hervey  02:01 
And what were the, what were the lessons that your grandmother taught you? 
 
Saranel Binyon  02:05 
She taught me all about intuition, and, of course, how to cook, which always helps. She taught 
me about life in general, about how to deal with, with my parents, and she encouraged me to read 
a lot of different types of books, a lot of religions. By the time I was 12, I had studied all the 
major religions because of her influence. And that was good. That's a good thing. 
 
Katherin Hervey  02:36 
And how did that impact you?  
 
Saranel Binyon  02:37 
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Well, I knew a lot about religion, and I knew what not to believe, you know, what I didn't 
believe. And it gave me a good foundation to grow from, and when you know more, you know 
more of what you want to reject. And that's kind of an interesting feeling too, you know what 
you don't believe.  
 
Katherin Hervey  02:56 
So, early on you were, you were rejecting different forms of religion?  
 
Saranel Binyon  03:01 
Yeah, yeah. The type of Christianity that we were taught in school, and in some of the churches. 
That, you know, rejected that quite early, and began to lean more toward the spiritual. Now, they 
call it the Buddhist Asian tradition, I suppose.  
 
Katherin Hervey  03:46 
What was it called then? 
 
Saranel Binyon  03:20 
I don't know that it-- I'm sure it had a name, but not in my vocabulary, because I was too young, 
I didn't know what it was. I just knew that I didn't believe that God was cruel and mean and 
wicked and was going to smite us and all that crap. I believed in, you know, a kind, good God, 
and that the people in Africa weren't going straight to hell. Jesus didn't hit him with his stick, so 
that sort of thing. And later I realized that it was more of a Buddhist school. 
 
Katherin Hervey  03:47 
And your parents, were they Christian, some form of Christian? 
 
Saranel Binyon  03:53 
Sort of, I suppose, it wasn't a big thing in our family. Daddy was a Freemason, and that was more 
of his religion than, than any and I don't know how Christian based that is. I don't know much 
about it, and outsiders don't, it's a secret thing, so I don't know. I know that both of them believed 
in reincarnation, and in that day and time, it was quite unusual. As a matter of fact, everybody in 
our family believed that. And most of the people in the family had-- Most of the women in the 
family had really unique psychic gifts, and we were taught to use them and not to deny them. 
And I find that it's been quite helpful in that respect.  
 
Katherin Hervey  04:35 
Your mom did as well?  
 
Saranel Binyon  04:37 
Yes. 
 
Katherin Hervey  04:40 
So, you knew this early on?  
 
Saranel Binyon  04:43 
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Yes, I saw energy fields, well, I guess when I could see, and learned when I was about four that 
not everybody saw what I saw, and it was quite a surprise to me. And my grandmother taught me 
and told me that it's okay to see it, but don't tell people because they'll, they'll think you're weird. 
And she was right. So, you know, I learned not to talk about some of the things that I saw or 
knew or sensed, except with the family, we could talk about it in the family. 
 
Katherin Hervey  05:11 
How did you learn that people would-- Did you go out and talk about it and people reacted to 
you?  
 
Saranel Binyon  05:12 
Yeah, sure.  
 
Katherin Hervey  05:12 
How old were you?  
 
Saranel Binyon  05:18 
Well, I guess I was in the first grade, and my teacher was angry, and I looked up at her and I 
said, "You've got red all around you." And it really upset her, and I had to go to the principal's 
office. So, I learned not to talk about that.  
 
Katherin Hervey  05:40 
What did you tell the principal?  
 
Saranel Binyon  05:36 
I just sat there and listened to him, you know, not to back talk to teacher and like, because they 
had no idea what, what was going on. At least they didn't burn me at the stake.  
 
Katherin Hervey  05:46 
Red is bad?  
 
Saranel Binyon  05:47 
It's an angry red, yeah. And she was just--  
 
Katherin Hervey  05:49 
Like fire?  
 
Saranel Binyon  05:50 
Yeah. It was just emanating all over. She was kind of a strange woman, anyway. So, I didn't look 
at her very much the rest of that year, and that was in the first grade. 
 
Katherin Hervey  06:13 
Did, what did your mother do most of her life? Did she work outside of the home or in the 
home?  
 
Saranel Binyon  06:16 
Page 5 of 19 
 
Both. 
 
Katherin Hervey  06:17 
Both?  
 
Saranel Binyon  06:18 
Yeah, she worked very hard. Mother and daddy always had several businesses, and it took both 
of them to run them, I suppose. And so she was always out of the home. When I was a teenager, 
she decided that she was going to take the time to run my life, and that was kind of a train wreck. 
She quickly backed off that and left me alone, fortunately. 
 
Katherin Hervey  06:41 
Do you know what her hopes were for herself? 
 
Saranel Binyon  06:46 
For herself?  
 
Katherin Hervey  06:46 
Or for her children?  
 
Saranel Binyon  06:47 
Mother wanted to be a doctor and she had marvelous, marvelous diagnosing skills. And that was 
her form of the psychic abilities, is that she could somehow or another, and she never figured it 
out, that she could diagnose anybody. And I, fortunately, had that skill too. She wanted to be a 
doctor and didn't get to it. I think it kind of ruined her life, it soured her in life. She died a very 
bitter woman, and I think that's why. 
 
Katherin Hervey  07:10 
Why didn't she get to be a doctor?  
 
Saranel Binyon  07:20 
The time and the money. She was born during the Depression time and in that part of the 
country, nobody had money, so she didn't get to go. [?It's just sad?]. Makes us feel very 
fortunate.  
 
Katherin Hervey  07:33 
What were her hopes for you? 
 
Saranel Binyon  07:39 
I think she wanted me to be a doctor, but didn't ever push me, I think she was kind of afraid to. 
And I didn't learn till I was, you know, out of high school, that she really would have preferred 
that I go to medical school, and I didn't. And I think that was very difficult on her. 
 
Katherin Hervey  07:59 
But did you want to go to medical school?  
 
Page 6 of 19 
 
Saranel Binyon  08:01 
Not particularly, not at the time, I wanted to be a psychiatrist, and took psychology, and got 
really bored, because I didn't like to hear people cry all day. And so I quit, I didn't do that. I did 
that a couple of years, and thought not going to do that. But the mind is more interesting to me 
than the body. So that was my bent, I wanted to be a psychiatrist, and didn't. 
 
Katherin Hervey  08:24 
This was like after you graduated from college, or before?  
 
Saranel Binyon  08:24 
Well, I have a degree in English and I also have one in psychology. It just kind of all fell 
together, so you can have more than one degree. 
 
Katherin Hervey  08:29 
Ain't that nice? 
 
Saranel Binyon  08:30 
Yeah, and you can go to graduate school the rest of your life, if you want to, too. 
 
Katherin Hervey  08:47 
Who were your companions as a child, save your grandmother?  
 
Saranel Binyon  08:50 
My horse and my dog and my cat and occasionally, a cousin or two. 
 
Katherin Hervey  08:56 
So was it, was it remote?  
 
Saranel Binyon  08:57 
Fairly remote and because I'm an only child, I was a remote child, anyway. I really didn't want to 
be bothered, I had things to do. So, it was perhaps an alone childhood, but not a lonely 
childhood. 
 
Katherin Hervey  09:13 
What about your classmates? 
 
Saranel Binyon  09:15 
I had some friends, and some of them are still my friends today, but not everybody would 
understand. And I don't know, it's a little difficult to explain. Sometimes people feel that you're 
different, they run like, you know, like a [?scolded?] dog away from you. And I think I gave that 
impression, just being different, and I think it scares [?people?].  
 
Katherin Hervey  09:35 
Without meaning to, you mean? 
 
Saranel Binyon  09:36 
Page 7 of 19 
 
Mm-hmm. Well I didn't know, you know, but looking back, I think that's what happened. 
 
Katherin Hervey  09:41 
Would you tell your friends, the ones that you were good friends with?  
 
Saranel Binyon  09:46 
No. After the incident with the teacher, I didn't tell anybody. I would just use it to my, you know, 
amusement more than anything. It wasn't until later that I realized that it really is a useful tool, 
and then it got to be quite entertaining after that. That was scary.  
 
Katherin Hervey  10:06 
When did you realize that?  
 
Saranel Binyon  10:06 
What? That it was a good tool? 
 
Katherin Hervey  10:06 
That it was a useful tool. 
 
Saranel Binyon  10:07 
When I was in high school and began to watch interactions of couples and, and teachers with 
other teachers. 
 
Katherin Hervey  10:07 
And you could see their energy?  
 
Saranel Binyon  10:10 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Katherin Hervey  10:12 
And what, what was that?  
 
Saranel Binyon  10:18 
Well if, for instance, if a couple would be sleeping together, their energies would kind of melt 
together. Well, they still do today, but it was very interesting to watch across the classroom, 
watch these energies kind of go spoosh, and that was always kind of fun. Or if someone was a 
liar, they emit a certain kind of energy, and that's always neat to watch. It was just fun to watch. 
It's like watching a movie that no one else can see. It was interesting. 
 
Katherin Hervey  10:49 
Could you see, like bad energy between people like in-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  10:51 
Yeah, it looks like static. Yeah, it's really, really interesting to watch. Doesn't necessarily have a 
color, but it looks the way static sounds. That's fun, too. 
 
Page 8 of 19 
 
Katherin Hervey  10:51 
Even if people don't know each other, like, will they have bad energies toward each other? 
 
Saranel Binyon  11:14 
Occasionally. And when you say don't know someone, you would almost have to qualify that, 
have they've never met before? Are they meeting now? And how do they feel about meeting each 
other? At that instance, there's an interchange of energy, you know, and what the energy looks 
like, pretty much, pretty much, can tell you how they're going to react to each other after that. 
And it changes, but usually it's pretty, if it's unguarded, it's very true. If the person is guarded, 
they can, you know, lie about, about it, energetically.  
 
Katherin Hervey  11:48 
Oh, really? 
 
Saranel Binyon  11:50 
Yeah, they can project what they want to, which is always fun. However, if you look deeper, you 
always see the face of it. And if you watch bodies, bodies don't lie. You can watch them real 
carefully, and there will be a part of the body that gives them away, unless they're really good 
actors. 
 
Katherin Hervey  12:11 
But you can spot them? 
 
Saranel Binyon  12:13 
Most of the time, not 100 percent. 
 
Katherin Hervey  12:21 
What were your chores or responsibilities as a child? 
 
Saranel Binyon  12:29 
Well, we had people in the house that did all the work, so all I had to do was learn how to do 
everything, and after that, I didn't have to do anything. But I did have to make sure that my 
animals were fed, but that wasn't a chore, that was more a privilege than anything else.  
 
Katherin Hervey  12:48 
What did you daydream about becoming when you grew up?  
 
Saranel Binyon  12:54 
I didn't daydream about becoming anything, because I stayed pretty much in the moment when I 
was a child and I was okay where I was. So, it wasn't like I had, you know, these lofty 
aspirations. I was fine with me.  
 
Katherin Hervey  13:06 
Do you think that's rare?  
 
Saranel Binyon  13:10 
Page 9 of 19 
 
I don't know. I don't have a clue. Do you? 
 
Katherin Hervey  13:16 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Saranel Binyon  13:16 
You think it's rare?  
 
Katherin Hervey  13:18 
[Whispers] It's not about me. 
 
Saranel Binyon  13:20 
No, but I want to know. 
 
Katherin Hervey  13:22 
[Laughs.] 
 
Saranel Binyon  13:22 
What's rare about that, did you want to be something?  
 
Katherin Hervey  13:25 
I just wanted to grow up. Like I was, I was always, I was always like, except I guess when I was 
by myself, like playing by myself, I mean, I was always, you know, very similar to kind of how I 
am now. I like being by myself.  
 
Saranel Binyon  13:37 
So do I. So, that answers our question, what are our dreams?  
 
Katherin Hervey  13:40 
To be left alone, [laughs].  
 
Saranel Binyon  13:41 
Yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  13:41 
You know my parents view on that.  
 
Saranel Binyon  13:46 
Just as mine.  
 
Katherin Hervey  13:47 
So, besides your teachers, what did you think of school in general?  
 
Saranel Binyon  13:57 
Oh, I loved it. It was this big game. I just thought it was wonderful. You know, it was so easy, 
and I just breezed right through it. I had a lot of boyfriends, and that was always interesting, 
Page 10 of 19 
 
because it was just all a big giggle. These people did dumb, stupid things, but it was wonderful. I 
just loved it. 
 
Katherin Hervey  14:15 
Were there any subjects that you particularly liked more than others?  
 
Saranel Binyon  14:19 
Well, of course, I liked English. I mean, who doesn't like English? And I loved math, loved 
math, and I liked to do books, which I suppose was a little strange. Chemistry was difficult for 
me because I didn't like the teacher. He told me I was stupid, and I knew I wasn't, so we blew up 
his lab. [They laugh.] It was great fun.  
 
Katherin Hervey  14:42 
Wow. 
 
Saranel Binyon  14:43 
Yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  14:43 
What did your family think about school? Like? Did they think it was really important for you? 
 
Saranel Binyon  14:52 
Oh, yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  14:52 
A lot of pressure? 
 
Saranel Binyon  14:54 
No pressure, because I made good grades. You know, I think one time, I made a C in Latin and I 
got the look, that's all. I was really kind of a self starter. They didn't get my face much about that. 
 
Katherin Hervey  15:16 
Were your classmates from the same background as you? Like economic, or?  
 
Saranel Binyon  15:18 
It was across the board. Yeah, we didn't have a ton of-- It was a very white-bred school. There 
were maybe a couple of Mexicans that, the poor blacks were sent, you know, on the other side of 
town, that was to our detriment. There were no, no Asians at all that I remember. I mean, this is a 
little cow town, you know, little oil town, [?rough?] town, so, you know.  
 
Katherin Hervey  15:44 
What was the population?  
 
Saranel Binyon  15:46 
You know, I don't have a clue. I don't remember nothing to it. We had two movie theaters. 
 
Page 11 of 19 
 
Katherin Hervey  15:54 
What about, what about the teachers? What was their background? 
 
Saranel Binyon  16:00 
I don't know that a student ever thinks of the teacher as having a background. They're just these 
people that talk in front of the class, I don't know that they're real people to, you know, to 
students. So, I don't know. And did I have a favorite teacher? Not particularly they were all 
amusing, and some of them were even intelligent, which was nice to get one of those. Had a 
couple of good teachers in college, but in high school, it was kind of black. 
 
Katherin Hervey  16:32 
Do you felt that they, that they treated the girls differently than the boys? 
 
Saranel Binyon  16:37 
Well, of course, of course. 
 
Katherin Hervey  16:39 
How's that?  
 
Saranel Binyon  16:39 
Well, the boys got to not know their answers and be rambunctious. And if they were football 
players, they were gods. And I dated the captain of the football team. God, I'm almost 
embarrassed to tell you, except that he's still one of my best friends in the whole world. And my 
Latin teacher had a crush on him, and I got As in Latin because of that, it was just, you know, I 
couldn't believe all this stuff. Then after he left to go to, to SMU, I dated the man that I 
eventually married, and one of my other teachers thought he was just darling. So, you know, that 
kind of played into it and I thought that was kind of sick. But okay, you know, you take what you 
can get.  
 
Katherin Hervey  17:24 
Were these male or female teachers?  
 
Saranel Binyon  17:22 
These were female teachers. At that point, in Texas, at that little bitty town, a gay person would 
have probably been, you know, [?displayed?] or at least fired. And I don't know of any gay 
people, that was just not in my realm till later. 
 
Katherin Hervey  17:27 
So when did you stop going to school? Formal, formal school. 
 
Saranel Binyon  17:58 
You know, I don't think that I have, because I take classes periodically, so, no. And I've just 
entered a doctoral program, so no, I haven't finished. Probably won't ever. It's too much to learn, 
too much fun. 
 
Katherin Hervey  18:16 
Page 12 of 19 
 
What are you taking right now? 
 
Saranel Binyon  18:19 
I'm taking intuitive medicine, intuitive diagnostics. Should be interesting, it's a spiritual thing.  
 
Katherin Hervey  18:29 
And then are you planning on extending it with your practice here? 
 
Saranel Binyon  18:33 
Oh well, yeah, I use it anyway, so I may as well have the doctor in front of my name. 
 
Katherin Hervey  18:38 
Mm-hmm, that's true. 
 
Saranel Binyon  18:39 
Yeah.  
 
Katherin Hervey  18:40 
And charge more? 
 
Saranel Binyon  18:42 
I hope so. 
 
Katherin Hervey  18:53 
Have you ever participated, or known people who participated in political events, either as 
students or at any point? 
 
Saranel Binyon  19:02 
Yeah, my daddy was quite active in the city politics, but that was a little bitty town, and I didn't 
pay any attention to it. But it was interesting because I remember one time that one of the people 
that worked for daddy, got all of his wetbacks in the truck and drove them to vote, because they 
wanted a particular sheriff. And the sheriff won, and we were glad, because he was a good guy. 
But I thought, well, that's odd. That was fun, too. And then one of my ex husbands also dabbled 
in politics. Until our divorce ruined his reputation, and now he can't do it anymore. 
 
Katherin Hervey  19:41 
What was that, can you tell that story?  
 
Saranel Binyon  19:43 
Well, he just wanted to be on the city council, and because he's an alcoholic and chased women, 
I dared him not to, because I would tell everybody.  
 
Katherin Hervey  19:55 
He didn't believe you?  
 
Saranel Binyon  19:57 
Page 13 of 19 
 
He believed me. He backed all the way off, he didn't run for office. 
 
Katherin Hervey  20:02 
How many husbands have you had?  
 
Saranel Binyon  20:05 
Well, I've had one official husband that we were really married, you know, in the church type 
thing, and then two common law. Doesn't that sound trashy? 
 
Katherin Hervey  20:19 
That's like the city hall, you go to city hall and get married?  
 
Saranel Binyon  20:25 
No, no, you just live with them a certain number of years, and then they become your common 
law husband. And if they die, you collect their insurance.  
 
Katherin Hervey  20:30 
That's what you've done? 
 
Saranel Binyon  20:33 
Well, none of them ever died. Bummer. 
 
Katherin Hervey  20:36 
So when your first, your first one, was that the official one? 
 
Saranel Binyon  20:40 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Katherin Hervey  20:40 
And when was it? 
 
Saranel Binyon  20:42 
I was 17 when I married him, and I was married to him for 25 years. Long time.  
 
Katherin Hervey  20:51 
You met him at school?  
 
Saranel Binyon  20:52 
Yeah, we actually met in kindergarten. I hit him on the head with a shovel the first time I met 
him because he had brown eyes.  
 
Katherin Hervey  21:02 
What does that mean?  
 
Saranel Binyon  21:05 
Page 14 of 19 
 
I had green eyes, and he was just not who I would play with because he had brown eyes-- whack. 
You know, you know, so, we kind of grew up together, and we were friends until we got 
married. You know that kind of-- well no, you don't know.  
 
Katherin Hervey  21:18 
No. 
 
Saranel Binyon  21:19 
Don't get married.  
 
Katherin Hervey  21:20 
I won't. 
 
Saranel Binyon  21:21 
Good. 
 
Katherin Hervey  21:22 
So then you went, you were married to him for 25 years. 
 
Saranel Binyon  21:25 
Forever.  
 
Katherin Hervey  21:26 
And do, and do you guys still speak?  
 
Saranel Binyon  21:30 
I speak. He doesn't. 
 
Katherin Hervey  21:32 
Is that who you had your daughter with?  
 
Saranel Binyon  21:35 
The daughter and the son. I don't know if you know about my son, I've got a 30 year old son too. 
 
Katherin Hervey  21:44 
And so what was, what was your relationship as parents? 
 
Saranel Binyon  21:51 
He worked, he drank, he brought home the money. I raised the kids and spent the money, period.  
 
Katherin Hervey  21:58 
You worked in the home? 
 
Saranel Binyon  21:59 
I worked in and out of the home. I taught school, I modeled for a long time. I've done all sorts of 
really strange and different things. 
Page 15 of 19 
 
 
Katherin Hervey  22:08 
Such as?  
 
Saranel Binyon  22:08 
Well, modeling was kind of different. I've raised horses, raised and trained horses, that was kind 
of fun. Done a lot of volunteer work, lots of volunteer work, as a good wife is supposed to do, 
you know, I don't know [?about that?]. It's slave labor. 
 
Katherin Hervey  22:31 
What else?  
 
Saranel Binyon  22:32 
What else?  
 
Katherin Hervey  22:33 
What else did you do, other jobs? 
 
Saranel Binyon  22:36 
Then, I did hypnotherapy for a long time, and now I do neurofeedback. 
 
Katherin Hervey  22:42 
How come you stopped doing hypnotherapy? 
 
Saranel Binyon  22:45 
There was a part of the brain that wasn't responding to hypnotherapy, and I couldn't figure out 
why. And I realized that certain types of brains can't pay attention, and I needed to know when 
they were not paying attention. Neurofeedback shows you when they're not and it also makes the 
brain self aware, so the brain can know it's not paying attention and begin to correct itself, so, 
that was really good. So, with hypnotherapy, I couldn't work with children with attention deficit, 
or with alcoholics and drug addicts, successfully. With neurofeedback, I can do that well, and 
that feels good.  
 
Katherin Hervey  23:23 
And so the part of the brain that can't respond is because they're, they're children, or because 
they've damaged it some with drugs or--  
 
Saranel Binyon  23:33 
Drugs or it can be genetic, it can be environmental, all sorts of things. Diet can affect it and 
drugs, alcohol, alcohol, I guess we consider that a drug. And if, the, the brain will heal itself, if 
you show it how. And neurofeedback has that capability.  
 
Katherin Hervey  23:56 
So what do you do as, as a-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  24:00 
Page 16 of 19 
 
A therapist? 
 
Katherin Hervey  24:02 
Yeah. 
 
Saranel Binyon  24:04 
As a therapist, I monitor the brainwaves. Of course, I hook the people up, you know, stick the 
sensors on their head and on their ears, and I turn on the equipment to show them their brain in 
action. And we run programs that help the brain realize that it needs to change the way it is 
working, and by that, I mean change the intensity of the brain wave, or change the brain wave 
itself, to get the desired reaction. For instance, if you have epilepsy, you're having like an 
electrical storm in your brain. With neurofeedback, we can show the brain this is an electrical 
storm, we don't want you to do that, do this instead, and it begins to actually, to regulate, and 
that's pretty cool. 
 
Katherin Hervey  24:50 
So, do you still use, like, your psychic abilities along, along with this?  
 
Saranel Binyon  24:56 
I do, yeah. 
 
Katherin Hervey  24:57 
Depending on who you're working with, or? 
 
Saranel Binyon  24:59 
Well, it's like the ability to see. You're going to use it because it's there, or the ability to hear, and 
it's. It's just another sense that that all of us have, I'm just aware of mine, and not everybody is, so 
[inaudible], with it. 
 
Katherin Hervey  25:16 
Have you always been aware of it, or-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  25:17 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Katherin Hervey  25:18 
There hasn't been like a [?horrible time where?]-- 
 
Saranel Binyon  25:19 
There was a time that I tried not to, to, to know about it, because my first husband was really 
nervous with it. He was Roman Catholic, and, you know, they think that anything like that is of 
the devil, and I would spook him out a lot with that. Although, he would use it in business 
meetings, he would ask me, in business meetings, you know, to come sit and tell him what was 
going on. However, if I wanted to do something else with it, it kind of spooked him, so I sort of 
denied it. And then when I was 40, I decided, to hell with it, I was going to be myself, and that 
was the slide down the slope to the divorce and all that. 
Page 17 of 19 
 
 
Katherin Hervey  25:58 
But you liked raising your kids, being a mom? 
 
Saranel Binyon  26:01 
Oh, yeah, that was fun. 
 
Katherin Hervey  26:02 
Was that a natural thing for you? 
 
Saranel Binyon  26:03 
That was fun, I enjoyed it, yeah. That was probably the most fun. Although each decade seems to 
be more fun than the last, in some ways, so, I don't know, but the kids are fun, they're still fun. 
 
Katherin Hervey  26:20 
So, then you met someone else? 
 
Saranel Binyon  26:22 
Yeah, and I was with him for about five years, I guess, and he was younger, and a lot of fun, kind 
of silly, I enjoyed it. Got tired of him, met this other guy that is really different, really strange. 
He and I have broken up just recently. I learned a lot from him, because he was black. I got to 
learn that culture, and I got to learn how it feels to be discriminated against. That was interesting. 
Moving up here, we drove through Idaho, and I didn't realize that they were screaming racists. 
And we went into this restaurant, and it got really quiet, and I thought, God, what's going on 
here? And then I realized, oh, he's still black. It was really funny.  
 
Katherin Hervey  27:07 
He knew what was going on.  
 
Saranel Binyon  27:08 
I don't know that he, that it, that it reaches him. He's strange like that. He doesn't really give it 
any credence, you know? He just doesn't pay any attention to it. So he never gets [inaudible]. 
Besides that, he's big too, so maybe that could-- 
 
Katherin Hervey  27:28 
Where did he grow up?  
 
Saranel Binyon  27:29 
In El Paso.  
 
Katherin Hervey  27:29 
Oh really? 
 
Saranel Binyon  27:26 
Yeah, it is interesting. He went to Rush University. He's quite smart, an interesting man.  
 
Page 18 of 19 
 
Katherin Hervey  27:55 
Okay. We got started on political, didn't we? Have your political views, or any other type of 
views, changed over the years. 
 
Saranel Binyon  28:07 
I think I've become more radical the older I get, in some areas. I used to believe that the 
government, I can't believe I believed it, really had us, you know, at heart, our best interests at 
heart. What a crock. And now, I'm almost an anarchist, you know, I really see government, the 
government, for what it is, and it's, it's very ugly. And it really upsets me that more women don't 
run the country. I feel like if it if women ran the country, well, first of all, we wouldn't have wars 
because we'd try not to kill our children. And secondly, I think that there would be a lot, [?the?] 
schools and work, there would be so many more social reforms if women ran the country. And I 
think that day is coming, and I really like that idea. So, yes, my views have changed a lot. I don't 
believe that the government needs to take care of us. I think we can do it ourselves. The 
government should go away, leave us alone, basically. 
 
Katherin Hervey  29:17 
Did you, you believe that just because it was what you were taught, it was what your parents 
taught you?  
 
Saranel Binyon  29:21 
No, I believed that government was good, because we're taught that in school. If you think about, 
you know, how we're taught, you know, and the Constitution, blah, blah, blah, what they didn't 
say is that we stole the land from the Indians. No one told us that. That the slaves, you know, till 
the soil, well, you know, we didn't know that they killed him and brought him over. We didn't 
understand that in schools, and as we begin to learn that, you know, of course, our views change. 
And I know that daddy was kind of radical in his beliefs, too, in that he thought that formal 
government was a waste of time and that income tax was a total invasion of privacy, and I agree 
with him.  
 
Katherin Hervey  30:08 
Did he pay income tax?  
 
Saranel Binyon  30:09 
Only when he had to, they had these great, long court battles all the time for that reason, it was 
interesting. Thank God he didn't go to jail.  
 
Katherin Hervey  30:19 
Do you pay income tax?  
 
Saranel Binyon  30:25 
Yeah, I don't want to, but your daddy makes me. 
 
Katherin Hervey  30:32 
So, what was your first job? And how did you get your first job?  
 
Page 19 of 19 
 
Saranel Binyon  30:35 
First job? I wasn't allowed to work as a kid, ladies didn't do that-- [recording ends]. 
 